Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

41

I just feel like crying... I'm so fed up of the hypocrisy!

by cattails in

i was very disgusted with the wt study for today.. towards the end of the article it refers to matthew 15 (see quoted scripture below).

this is a beautiful passage where jesus says his followers need to be hospitable, care for sick, hungry and imprisoned brothers.. they turn it around and say that for jw's this means they need to support the "faithful and discreet slave" by going in door-to-door witnessing, making monetary contributions to support the worldwide witnessing work, and following the directions and counsel of congregation elders.. and the worst part of it all is that there were several commenters giving almost word for word answers to that effect, they didn't even seem to listen to previous comments, they just repeated mindlessly what the paragraph said... i was ready to burst.

mom knew i was about to have a fit right there and then.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Just read Doubting Bro's post, which prompted me to re-read the account in Matt. 25:31-46 about the sheep and goats. I never noticed that, as Doubting Bro pointed out, verse 32 clearly discusses separating all the nations into either right-side (good) or left-side (bad). Then, in verse 34, the king says to those on his right that they would inherit the kingdom. Pretty standard stuff, right?

But where do the JW "earthly-hope" class fit into this? It looks like there are two classes here: (1) the sheep, who "inherit the kingdom"; and (2) the goats, who get killed. I don't see anything about a third class that is superior or inferior to the sheep class. And doesn't "inheriting the kingdom" mean that they go to heaven and rule? If someone told me that I was inheriting the kingdom of England, I would understand that to mean that I was going to be king--not that I was going to be one of 50 million or so subjects of the Crown.

I'm sure the WTS has some kind of tortured explanation for this, but I can see how you can read this parable and come away thinking that all good people go to heaven.

9

Friends who are not JW

by dgp in

jw
friends

i understand that a good jw must not be friends with anyone who is not in the society.

however, i am under the impression that in real life that gets sort of swept under the rug and jw's have friends outside anyways.

is my impression correct?

Olin Moyles Ghost

Many believing JWs have "worldly" acquaintances. I saw this quite a bit among JW men who worked for a company in the real world (as opposed to self-employed JWs or those who work for other JWs). It is not uncommon for a JW to attend certain work-related outings such as playing golf with clients or colleagues on occasion.

But it is rare in the JW world for a Witness to invite "worldly" acquaintances out to dinner without there being some sort of reason or excuse (such as it being work-related). It seemed to me that there needed to be some sort of "hook" in order to justify socializing with non-Witnesses. The two main hooks were (1) it's work-related, or (2) he/she is interested in "the truth."

Often, JWs appear "stand-off-ish" to non-JW acquaintances--such as neighbors and co-workers. I recognized this about myself when I was a believing JW. But it was a coping mechanism. If I didn't allow myself to get too close to these folks, then they would be less likely to invite me to do things with them. In retrospect, that's sort of a tough habit to overcome.

52

Are the Dubbers still preaching the end is very close?

by dogon in

we use to joke around and use the line from danny deveto on romancing the stone where he is asking michael dougless when he is coming back, soon very soon as a way to make fun of the believers who would keep telling us on stage the end was soon very soon.

they started this after the 75 and 2000 failure.

what are they saying now?.

Olin Moyles Ghost

If you would like a thoughtful, well-researched, scholarly counterpoint to EOM's frantic generalizations, check out Harvard Professor Steven Pinker's lecture. That puts things in a bit of perspective. The text of his article is here: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker07/pinker07_index.html. A Youtube video of his lecture is available here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk

89

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE LEFT THE TRUTH?

by lgadsden in

jw
friends

jehovahs day comes at this moment and u realize u were in the right place but because of leaving you are now doomed.

would everything gained (temporary) enjoyment worth it?.

Olin Moyles Ghost

The OP ("LGADSDEN") is either (1) a JW child who is secretly using his parents' computer to surf apostate web sites, or (2) a classic example of what happens when the WT Society discourages education.

That being said, the answer to his question is yes, leaving the doomsday false prophet Watchtower organization is absolutely worth it. And this "Jehovah's day" nonsense he mentions isn't coming. It just isn't. Check back with me in 20 years, 30 years, etc. We'll still be here and the WTS will still be saying that Armageddon is "right around the corner." You can take that to the bank.

I find it AMAZING that grown men and women still fall for this "end of the world" claptrap. If you read the New Testament, those people thought it was coming in their lifetimes (see Jesus' discussion of the "generation" and in Revelation, John says Jesus is "coming quickly"--well, it's been almost 2000 years...that isn't "quickly" by anyone's timetable). Guess what, they were wrong. That makes it a pretty shaky foundation on which to base life decisions.

Since the first century, there have been literally dozens of end-of-the-world movements. And they all have one thing in common--they were all WRONG! The Watchtower organization is just another one of those movements. And just like the others, it has been proven WRONG over and over and over again.

Anyone who falls for the Watchtower message in 2009 deserves what he's getting. This is a religious organization that has been around for 130 years. During that time, it has prophesied the end of the world numerous times. Each time, it's been wrong. Explain to me why, with that background, anyone would choose to follow these idiots? It baffles me. I guess P.T. Barnum was right when he said "there's a sucker born every minute."

72

February 2010 Study Watchtower - Millions Now Living 'May' Never Die

by Marni Mai in

just noticed that in the february 2010 study edition of the watchtower, they refer to the "millions now living will never die" talk in 1918, but they have changed the title to "millions now living may never die".

only problem, they included the picture of the invitation to the talk, which says 'will'.. ooops.

it's on page 16. enjoy.. .

Olin Moyles Ghost

As many have noted, it didn't take Rutherford long to change the "may" to "will." If anyone tries to argue that the WTS only used "may," then feel free to direct them to the (in)famous "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" brochure which is now available on Google Books (not an "apostate" site). See http://books.google.com/books?id=V0gMAAAAYAAJ.

27

Why are baby showers acceptable and not birthdays

by insearchoftruth in

my wife is going to a jw baby shower today............

Olin Moyles Ghost

Isn't a baby shower a birthday celebration? It's celebrating the birth of a child. And the child receives gifts. So I guess JWs are permitted to celebrate one birthday per lifetime. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

52

Are the Dubbers still preaching the end is very close?

by dogon in

we use to joke around and use the line from danny deveto on romancing the stone where he is asking michael dougless when he is coming back, soon very soon as a way to make fun of the believers who would keep telling us on stage the end was soon very soon.

they started this after the 75 and 2000 failure.

what are they saying now?.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Of course! They always have and always will. Like Undercover, I've heard JWs say things like "we're in the last minutes of the last days" and the like.

But when you observe the way many JWs are actually living you begin to question how much they really believe it...lots of Witnesses buying nice houses, nice cars, going to college, etc. At least that's what I've observed in the U.S. among the 20-40 year old crowd.

63

2009 Annual Worldwide Service Report -- 7.3 Million Publishers

by Joker10 in

china: the number of publishers has increased.

in some parts of the mainland, they can openly go door to door without much interference.

there are actally buildings now used as kingdom halls.

Olin Moyles Ghost

That's a nice little increase--2.6% worldwide and 4.4% in the USA. Not particularly surprising since 2009 included the world's worst economic recession since the 1930s. Bad economic times tend to send people searching for salvation. In other words, religion is a counter-cyclical industry.

30

Why should God need a human organisation on earth?

by Dold Agenda in

if i should ask this to a relative jw.... - why should god need a human organisation on earth anyway?.

what answer will i get?

any scripts that they probably will show up to support this thinking?.

Olin Moyles Ghost

A few posts mention 1 Cor 11:3, where Paul states "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ , and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."

Why didn't Paul mention the organization here? Why didn't he mention the "faithful and discreet slave"? (As a side note, did you ever wonder why there's no record of any First Century Christians referring to themselves as the "faithful and discreet slave"?)

This verse addresses headship in the family context and in the context of God's so-called "heavenly organization." If Paul really believed that there was an earthly organization to which men and women must submit, it seems that he would have included it in this discussion. But he didn't. This casts doubt on the claims of the WTS (or any other organization) claiming that the Bible requires Christians to submit to an organization of human religious leaders.

20

Is the Door to Door Preaching Obsolete?

by lepermessiah in

i wanted to get some opinions on this.. the last few years i was active as a jw, i thought that the door-to-door preaching work was the biggest waste of time.

you rarely got anyone home, those you did get home were rarely interested, and it seemed like a huge waste of resources.. in line with that thought, i was speaking with a gentleman at work the other day - he is a very active pastor in the community, and him and i have gotten to be pretty good friends - we have had a ton of interesting conversations.he recently moved his church to a bigger location due to past and expected future growth.. he was telling me that one of his big concerns was the fall-off of church attendance in our area.

he had a company actually come in and do a study for him with census information, demographics, etc.

Olin Moyles Ghost

I agree that door-to-door is one of the least (if not the least) efficient way of attracting new members. But attracting new members is really only an ancillary goal of the door-to-door work. As others point out, the primary purposes of the work are (1) keeping the Witnesses occupied, (2) reinforcing the exclusivity of the JW movement ("we're the only ones preaching worldwide, thus we must be the true religion"), and (3) providing a distribution channel for the WT Corporation's literature.

And, as others point out, there is little evidence that the First Century Christians preached door-to-door. Perhaps some did, but it is not clear from the New Testament. There is not one single example in the NT of any Christian preaching door-to-door. There are lots of examples of Christians speaking in public places (Sermon on the Mount, Paul's speech at Mars Hill) and informally (Phillip to the Ethiopian, Jesus to the woman at the well and many others).

But the only examples the WT can find are two statements the book of Acts that mention disciples preaching in homes. (And one of those, Acts 20:20, is simply Paul recalling having spoken to certain ones in their homes in the past.) Whether or not these two verses refer to a house-to-house preaching work is unclear. But what is clear is that there are no recorded examples of house-to-house preaching in the Scriptures. If it was so critical, then why did God not see fit to include any examples of it? Why must we rely on two ambiguous verses in Acts?